Considering buying a Mechanical watch?

Since, eBay limits reviews of products to mostly electronics and other non-luxury related items, we felt some consumers might benefit from our "Guide", if considering a watch purchase here on eBay--a watch is considered a luxury item. But, they are possibly amongst those products today, aimed at people who want quality for less money, and as such...............fall pray to poorly made parts or improper installations and the use of "Swiss Made" being used to scam people out of thier hard earned money.

Over the course of the last year or so, we as normal consumers not "Experts" in the "Horological" industry, have purchased several watches--we like the mystique and magic of the mechanical watch movements and are admirers of thier engineering feats!  However, we experienced all sides of the industry and recently decided we would share in our experiences in hopes of warning people as to what to "watch" for, in purchasing a mechanical movement watch.  First, question we asked ourselves was, "Why does one mechanical watch last years, while another only lasted a few months or in one case, only days?"  After all, all boasted "Swiss Made" either on thier dials or in thier literature/marketing/sales and advertising.  First, it is important to express, that mechanical movements which consist of many, many complicated and complex mechanical wheels, jewels used as "bearings" and other small parts, differ as vastly as their brands and types used from Maker to Maker and movement to movement.  It is actually overwhelming, just how many types of movements are out there, all boasting "Swiss Made" and all claiming to be the best movement--which places the consumer at a huge disadvantage--knowing the truth.  The art of Horology, goes back centuries.  It is a true craft and art, considered even today, as possibly the most complex of mechanical engineering feats--aside from possibly rocket-science and getting a man into space.  As an industry..............there are few schools who still teach the art, and fewer qualified "Horologists" offering services for repairing many of those movements.  Sadly...................and more times than not, the cost of having a Horologist, trained and competent, working on one's mechanical watch is greater than, the cost of simply replacing a broken movement or the watch entirely.  As such, exit visa the Art of Horology and enter the craft of mass production and low cost cheap alternative products.  More times than not, it is simply more cost effective to trash the broken watch, then have it repaired.  We can make this statement, as we purchased three watches recently, while owing several others as comparisons...................we purchased 1.  Rolex Fake--boasting a 2892-2A ETA movement and 27 jewels--which by the way, does not exist--2892-2A ETA movements are 21 Jewel.  2.  William Marshall boasting ETA 2824-2 with a 25 Jewel movment--accurately described.  3.  Invicta 9937--boasting also, a Swiss Made 26 Jewel movement accurately described--although we don't know if it is contracted through ETA or not.  We currently own a Rolex Datejust and a Tag Heuer Sport watch which has a Quartz movment--we don't know what is in the Rolex as it has never needed anything in the 2-years we have owned it and the Tag being Quartz really doesn't fit here with this mechanical movement topic--other than, we have replaced one battery and the watch is still working perfectly.  Here are the prices paid for the recent mechanical watches:

1.  Fake Rolex:  $900.00(Internet) discounted from $1,100.00

2.  Invicta:  $400.00(new) Blue Rotor

3.  William Marshall:  $260.00 ETA "Swiss Made" dial (auction/new) 

Here is how they faired:

The Fake Rolex came with a horrible tin-thin center link band--although it was the 14karat Gold and not the advertised 18kt, it was so flimsy that the center links joined at the edges not center, allowed the watch to fall off, hitting the ground and the movement never kept time again as it had to be manually wound thereafter--even then, it did not keep time--was about 40-minutes fast in 24 hours.  When opened, we found a Chinese fake ETA movement that was marked 2824 with a fake ETA symbol--fake Gold or Gold plating--clearly an Asian rendition of an ETA movement.  There was however one metal clamp opposite the winding stem with no spacer--metal or plastic to hold the movement in place--when the watch band gave up, the watch hitting the ground, jarred the movement loose and bent the stem.  The advertised "Saphire Crystal" was mineral glass with a glued on cyclops magnifyer of about 1 1/2 times and not the Rolex advertised 2 1/2 times magnification--it was glued below the date wheel window and one had to hold the watch at an angle to determine that actual date.  We also found, that the majority of the Sellers offering these time pieces are all amongst the same main supply company--that's right...........they all belong to the same people providing these Fakes to the market.  We found out, as we tried to send the watch back for servicing, offering to pay for the parts needed and were amazed to find many linked by web site--of course we were told to call on a Saturday, when supposedly thier Master Horologists were in for servicing, only to find an answering machine and the occassional return phone call with the same message to call back again--three weeks we lived the ritual without a single person ever contacting us or answering the phone.  We purchased from what we thought was a real web site with real Consumer feedbacks posted, and found it too was bogus--we tried to post our feedback to the supposed "Rating Site" and it was just as much as a scam as the quality of watches being sold--junk!  The biggest scam, is the so-called grading of Fakes offered....................we purchased from the most highly "recommended site" for its "Swiss Grade 1 Replicas" boasting real Swiss movements and real Swiss assembly, only to find the case tube glued in--not threaded.....................the crown was real Gold 14kt not 18kt and was a sleeve fitted over a 6mm crown thus making it the new 7mm size, which had two gaskets--one on the inside of the case tube and one inside the crown--absolutely no dual or tripple seals at the case tube outter part whatsoever--thus it was NOT water proof at all.  Our Jeweler laughed as he tried to use a Rolex case tube removal tool, to remove the case tube and it broke off where it had been soldered or glued into the casement.  The bezel insert was poorly made, did not line up with the 12:00 face pointer and when removed was also glued to the 14kt not 18kt bezel.  There was a gasket however under the bezel.  And, the Mineral Crystal, not Saphire one as advertised, was glued on well--to this date, we nor our Jeweler has had luck removing it.  The case was of good quality stainless, but the weight suggested casted and not 316P milled billet steel or "machined" as advertised.  In other words............a poured casting which is then de-burred and final shaped by grinding and polishing versus CNC milling from a solid billet.  At least it was steel versus some of the Asian copies we hear are chromed plastic.  Anyway, the weight was obviously not anywhere near a true Rolex weight--close but not as advertised.  Nor was it waterproof or consisting of gaskets at the crown and case tube necessary to prevent water damage.  Which really did not matter, as the watch lasted about 6-months and always had skips in the second hand sweep with the entire movement eventually sort of working--would stop frequently and need a hard tap to get it going again--even before the watch fell to the ground.

The Invicta 9937:  Very nice weight--solid construction and limited "Counter-weight(?)" rattles--still you can hear it swinging around inside the case--but not nearly as much as the Fake Rolex--probably due to the real or Invicta 26 Jewel automatic movment.  The case back see through observation window is kind of cheesy and quite honestly the automatic Blue-laser etched movement is not all that decorative or really worth seeing--pretty basic other than the Blue part--would rather have a solid back on the watch as a matter of quality versus trendiness.  The dial is quite plain enamel, but the Tritnite luminous markers works great, but the 12:00 markers like the Fake Rolex are not aimed that well--about a half click off to the bezel marker.  It also feels loose in its bezel rotation.  Anyway, the "Coin" bezel is about $100.00 more to own versus the Invicta normal "Scalloped Bezel", which we thought was kind of an odd expensive upgrade.  And even with the upgraded bezel, the 12:00 marker does not aligned with the face of the watch at the 12:00 position very well, but much better than the Fake Rolex alignment.  The Invicta's crown is very stout and screws down with good precision making one feel like it is truly a well built and water proof watch--unlike the Fake Rolex which had no outter case tube gaskets or the sensation of being waterproof at all as the winding stem was not thick enough for the inner case tube gasket to be useful--by the way as mentioned, there was one inner gasket on the Fake Rolex.  The Invicta has what feels like two inner gaskets and one at the end or inside the crown--haven't taken it apart, as to date, there has been no reason to--the watch keeps very good time--about a minute and a half fast per-24 hours but we think, only when the watch is manually fully wound--maybe a really tight main spring makes it run slightly fast?  The case and bracelet feel heavy and 316P solid stainless steel has a weight that is easily identifyable--the bracelet  is very solid and thick with solid center links, indicative of quality construction!  The only real criticism is the Invicta logo appears to be similar to the Breitling and really is not necessary as the watch can easily hold its own against much more expensive watches that are marketed to those seeking "Brand" names--usually within the elite sector of the watch industry.  We would buy another Invicta as we are looking at one with a Selletas Swiss 26 Jewel movment.  The price to value and quality of construction is well worth purchasing another one.  We are hopeful this 9937 model watch continues to run as it has been very reliable--it is a fairly new acquisition so the jury is still out, for at least another few months--one year anniversary.  So far, we have not had a single issue--we swim with it and shower/bathe with it and it holds up to daily use--we even did mild construction projects around the house with it, and it has not had any issues result from hammering, sawing or accidental bangs against things--it obviously does have shock-protections within the movement! 

The Fake Rolex by the way..................fell off, as a result of walking through a doorway and accidentally hitting it against the door jamb--the center links being of poor design and quality, pulled through a pin holding one of the watch band's links and the watch went hurling through the air, hitting a carpeted floor and that was the end of that watch's usefulness--it remains in pieces on our make shift watch repair table, due to the cost of Rolex genuine or reproduction replacement parts which are non-interchangable as we found after purchasing two Bezel Inserts that were not usable.  And a new case tube that does not fit the Fake Rolex Crown's threads.  Then, there is the added costs of modifying/tapping the case for an actual Rolex type case tube--none of course will fit without tapping the case for the threads and then the Crown is not a Triploc Rolex but rather a horrible sleeved fake and who knows what those threads might fit--certainly NOT anything made by or for a Rolex.  Again.................making the watch a simple loss, as parts cannot found to fit or to be retrofitted without exorbitant added costs ontop of the original purchase price.  By the time we have the Fake Rolex fixed to be useful again...................we may as well have simply purchased a real one--used ones can be found within the $2,000.00 price range.  That is the gimmick these Scammers get the Consumer on...............the watch looks like a Rolex but is not even as reliable as a Timex and cannot be repaired affordably--which is probably why they don't offer any real "Warranty" or "Repairs" services.  So, if you need to have the Brand name to feel important, know ahead of time..........................those Fake watches are complete write offs!  We feel an Invicta 9937 with coin bezel has all the features of a Rolex style Submariner but is thousands less............................and we hear the new Invicta 3025(?) with the Selletas 26 Jewel movement and two-tone watch, although not solid 18kt gold (plated) is supposed to be just a fantastic value for the money--around $1,500.00 Retail and $749.00 on eBay--even found one for $550.00 used.  Might have to check that one out, as it looks allot like the Rolex 16613 Two tone Blue-Gold Submariner--which sells for over $6,000.00 and in the Fake market, $1,100.00 which was the one we purchased discounted out of the Seller's good heart (right) for $900.00.      

The William Marshall:  Claims to be "Swiss Made" but should claim its movement is the only thing about the watch that is "Swiss Made".  It did come with a mechanical ETA movement--2824 25 Jewel.  By the way....................ETA builds lots of movements 2836, 2892-2A, even a 7750 Valjoux type of Chronograph movement, etc.  ETA is the main company which provides millions of  movements to the industry by which "Brand Names" and "No-Name" watch companies use for the "guts" of thier watches.  In other words, ETA is the main provider of most of the mechanical automatic movements used by even Rolex as well as others who simply install thier dials and use thier stamped cases to house their Stamped movements which are modified ETA movements.  These are extraordinary movements complicated, complex and once though of (before rocket science) as man's most achieved mechanical engineering.  Sadly though....................as wonderful as a well installed ETA movement offers its owner, improper or cheap assembly materials and processes can alter its functionality and limit the its usefulness.  Recently we purchased such a watch--an off-brand William Marshall Submariner style watch which the eBayer advertised as having a fully functioning ETA 2824 25 Jewel movement.  The watch seemed to look good in the auction--nice all stainless steel case and band with very modest and simple dial--this was a mechanical automatic "Date" watch with hack features and the "sweeping" second hand--28,800 beats which makes the second hand appear to rotate without ticking--a very smooth "sweep".  The watch as with this ETA movement, has the "Quick Set" feature as well--when you pull the crown out to its first little click, it moves the Date Wheel rather than the old days, when you had to rotate the minute hand forever, to advance the Date.  The "Hack" feature is the last section or click when you pull the crown out, and it stops the second hand from moving.  When one considers the cost of such a movement, which can be found online for as little as $74.00 without crown or dial, it is a miracle of mechanics.  The eBayer with whom was selling this watch via auction, appeared to be an Expert, with very good feedback (not 100%) but still..............very good for the number of transactions he has had...............................so we were comfortable in bidding--we won--and the watch was shipped quickly and packaged very well.  When we received the watch, it in fact was as advertised as "New" and un-worn and appeared as such.  We paid around $260.00 for the watch.  Considering the cost of other mechanical automatic watches, we thought it was just a great deal.  Oops.  Within a couple days, the watch stopped running, and we emailed the eBay Seller and asked to return it for an exchange--he assured us, that we had not "pre-loaded" the automatic winding feature correctly, and that it had stopped as a result of not winding the "Main Spring" completely so that it would "discharge" as should an automatic movement--the automatic winding feature works due to a counter-wighted part that spins around as you move your wrist--"Counter Balance Rotor?"  Anyway we are NOT EXPERTS and we think, we represent the normal Consumer also, who is not an Expert.  Anyway, so the eBay Seller convinced us we hadn't "loaded the Main Spring".  So, with that.......................we wound the watch.  First thing we noticed, was when winding the movement, it was very tight to beginwith--nor did it wind easily like the Invicta--the Fake Rolex well.................hehehehe.................when you wound it, the whole dial and hands would move as it was being wound.  Anyway, we were sure it was already pre-wound, but did as instructed and wound it the 40+ plus times we were told.  The watch kept excellent time for another 2-days--the whole time being worn with plenty of arm movements to keep it fully operational.  Then, it quit again.  So, we wound it again......................and it worked for about an hour, then stopped again.  And thereafter we had to "tap" on the watch to keep it running and eventually it completely stopped.  Not wanting to give up on the watch, especially since we had $260.00 invested,  it did have an ETA movement so we thought it a steal and worth investing more money into keeping it running!  So, we took it to a watch maker/jeweler to have it "adjusted" and to have the band re-adjusted--it came with old style pins rather than screws for the links.  There, once opened, it was discovered that the movement, which was being held in with a plastic spacer, had come loose and the "Counter Weight" was hitting it preventing it from automatically winding.  The winding stem at this point had bent as a result of it holding the movement in place--there were no little metal clamps holding the movement to the case--just the plastic spacer.  It was also determined that the "Main Spring" appeared over-stretched and the "Fly Wheel" was bent--so as it rotated it would stick.  There was allot of oil inside the case and when the movement was removed, it would not stay running while in a movement holder.  We asked to have it fixed and were told it was not worth fixing--the movements new, are inexpensive but the Jeweler's time was not.  By the time we spent the money on having the watch repaired, it would not have made sense in comparison to the cost a decent "Brand" with US-based repair warranties or one that was assembled with quality parts.   As a side note.....................the water-proofness of the watch was horrible, as two things were discovered..............................1.  The case tube had absolutely no gasket--only a single gasket inside the crown and one inside the case tube, which was much bigger than the watches stem--so we are not sure why it was even in there.  2.  The crystal was not glued in--and easily popped out when our Jeweler pressed on it lightly!  The plastic spacer was not deep enough to be held taught by the case back when screwed down and that is what allowed the movement to vibrate enough to damage the delicate parts.  We were told there was no rotating bezel gasket or good quality bezel click rotor, but rather just a single spring--good quality rotating bezels sit atop a click spring ring which is held by two mounting locations and allows for lots of clicks when you rotate the bezel versus a single hole spring which is a spring bar and uses tension against the bezel to make the clicks which are much fewer and is more flimsy.  Also we were told that a good quality bezel has that ring wheel held in by two mounting holes on the case and uses a gasket for water proofing--amazingly the Fake Rolex had this but not the William Marshall watch.  In other words.....................there was not much holding the rotating bezel to the watch case and certainly was not any where near "water proof" to the level advertised.  And as it was put to us........................."Swiss Made" truly only applied to the ETA movement only--the rest of the watch was horribly assembled with the cheapest possible band and assembly parts.

As a side note................our Jeweler also informed us, that in Switzerland as of now, the use of that entitlement "Swiss Made", is currently being reviewed by the authorizing committee to help prevent others from experiencing what we experienced from William Marshall.................the use of the term "Swiss Made" to suggest quality, which is non-existent and truly makes a mockery of that "Quality Assurance".  We emailed William Marshall on eBay and they did not even bother replying with any sort of "Gee..............we're sorry--send it to us immediately and we will fix it".  We don't blame the eBay Seller, as he is just the Seller--not the Maker.  However, since he is in that industry and is a self proclaimed "Expert", one would have thought he would have fully inspected and tested the movement before selling it--there was no way this watch would have operated for long, as advertised due to the poor installations and low cost/poor quality labor and parts used.  The lesson.......................

Conclusion:

First, there is no way to know the true quality of a Watch Maker's products or eBay Seller's qualifications to sell those products while using the "Quality Swiss Made" lure in thier advertising and marketing efforts.  Sadly, it is a hit or miss proposition.  In fairness to William Marshall...................if they were to spend the time installing or assembling watches like other brands do, their costs would increase in a direct relationship.  However, the Invicta watch we own, is of much better quality and is far more mass-produced but does not behave like a mass produced low priced product--in fact, we purchased another one recently.  So we think Invicta truly hits on that mid-priced market offering a superior quality product for not much more than where the cheap William Marashall watches are marketed.  And sadly for us, even when the William Marshall watches use such an amazing movment as the ETA 2824, but don't install it with care, it does not do justice to ETA, as everything else is low quality, low cost construction.  For those who can afford it,  the Rolex, Breitling, Omega etc watches are far more expensive but use quality parts, construction and labor to ensure thier usefulness.  Dollar for dollar, we would take the Invicta watches over all others in its price range.  We over paid for the William Marshall, by about $100.00 in relation to its construction and poor quality of everthing else, but the ETA movement,  and would not buy another--ever.  The Fake Rolex......................a total loss--would have been better to have flushed the $900.00 down the toilet and saved ourselves the time and aggrevation of learning the hard way, that the industry is run by Sleezy people with an "Hahaha, tough beans, Sucka" attitude.  Do yourself a favor.......................avoid the Fakes at all costs....................you are paying for junk, just to look wealthy and really, if you don't have the clothes, car or house or corporate position.....................the fake will just say to all..............."Hi, I am a fake person with a fake self worth!"--remember, those who own things, do so because they can--get it?  If you want a really nice automatic ETA loaded properly loaded into a watch case which is a mechanical marvel and truly a miracle of man-made engineering.................we recommend Invicta--for the money.  Or, Omegas can be had for about $1,200.00 on eBay--they will install those movments with Incabloc or shock proof components, water proof them properly and your watch in the long run, will run far better and for allot longer which dollar for dollar is the best deal--how long does a product last, versus how much money you spent is what determines the true value of a product.  The Fake Rolex lasted about never--from day one it skipped, was loose in its casement and 6-months later could not take a bump on its head--$900.00 divided by 90 days of fair market usefulness (and I am being more than fair in giving it those 90 days!) equals a dollar cost value of about $30.00 per-day just to "look like we could afford a $6,000.00 watch!".  The William Marshall watch, lasted 10-days at a cost of $260.00 or $26.00 per day.  And the Invicta cost $400.00 and is still running perfectly, and so far, represents about $1.75 per day to own.  The Real Rolex and Tag watches we have, were purchased several years ago--the Rolex is 8 years old and we've had it for 2-years and the Tag is 6 years old purchased new.  The Tag needed one battery and other than that is still running perfectly--representing pennies per-per day in dollar value.  And the Rolex Datejust purchased used from a Pawn Shop for $1,800.00 has needed nothing in the last two years ( we purchased it used after it had been serviced) representing to date.................$2.50 per-day to own (since we have owned it). 

So..........................you tell me which represents the best value?  It is quite possible, that the Rolex and others like it, may seem expensive initially, but most likely will last the longest and in essence................over the long haul, be the best dollar-value within thier class/industry.  Good luck and we hope you find that watch of your dreams, and further hoping you get quality for a fair price--especially if your Watch Maker advertises "Swiss Made".