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Purchasing an Anvil

by: scharabo( 5529Feedback score is 5,000 to 9,999) Top 5000 Reviewer
288 out of 296 people found this guide helpful.
Guide viewed: 13063 times Tags: blacksmith | anvil | 110 | hardy | vise


BEWARE OF SECOND CHANCE OFFER SCAMS ON ANVILS:  Apparently someone is capturing enough information on anvil auctions on eBay to send bogus second chance offers (SCOs).  Say you bid on an anvil and are outbid.  About a week later you receive a SCO at your last bid price.  However, the response goes to the sender (an e-mail address) rather than back to e-Bay.  If you respond, and pay, likely you will never see the anvil or your money again.  Neigher eBay or PayPal will ask you to respond to a link in an e-mail to log-in (or to provide any account-related information).  To verify it is a legitimate e-mail from either eBay or PayPal log into your eBay account directly.  Go to My eBay, then My Messages.  If it is a legitimate message from either it will be listed there.  If not, send the e-mail (intact) to spoof at either eBay or PayPay (.com).  Also, if your Internet provider has that option, report it as spam to them.

This is secondhand information only, but I have heard the person likely responsible for the bogus SCOs also sells anvil directly on eBay and then never delivers once payment is received.

Also beware of sellers who insist on a money order.  Unless you can pick the anvil up personally (without a deposit) try to insist on using PayPal as you get some protection through them.  If you pay with a credit card through PayPal you are somewhat double protected as you can also protest the payment through the credit card company if you don't receive the merchandise.

Personally I believe, given something like two million listings either start or end on a given day, eBay does the best they can to protect buyers.  However, it still comes down to being extremely cautious on large dollar purchases.

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Prior to about 1780 anvils were mostly blocks with a short, stubby horn at one end.  About 1780 steps began to become common on anvils.  A step is a movement downward of the horn and the broadening of the horn base to create a type of ledge.  The next significant change was a pritchel or punching hole which became standard about 1830.  At these times there was a transition period such that the lack of a step does not necessarily mean an anvil is older than 1780 and the incorporation of a pritchel or punching hole does not necessarily date an anvil to after 1830.  Some fairly modern European anvils do not incorporate a step and some old anvils have pritchel holes drilled in them later.

Initially anvil construction was done by forge welding on sections.  Until about 1860 most anvils consisted of a core block onto which were forge welded feet, horn and heel.  Tool steel was then forge welded on top in two-three sections.  Anvil manufacturers became extremely good at feathering in forge welding seams to where a multiple piece anvil can appear to be one solid piece.

About 1860 Peter Wright, an English manufacturer, patented the two-piece body anvil.  The top and bottom halves were forged separately and then forge welded at the waist.  A steel plate was then forge welded on the top.  Peter Wright's design became known as the London pattern and became a standard for a typical blacksmithing anvil since.  Essentially it took anvil design from blocky to sleek.

Until the early 1900s wrought iron was mostly used for the body of composite anvils.  This process created the potential for an anvil to become swayed-backed as the softer wrought iron was compressed under the tool steel plate from heavy usage.  This was an accepted defect in this type of anvil and when they became too swayed from usage, or horns or heels broken off, they could be sent off to be repaired.

Until the late 1800s the high-quality anvil market in the U.S. was pretty well dominated by English produced anvils, with Mouse Hole Forge, Peter Wright and, to a lessor degree, Wilkinson and William Foster the dominant exporters.  Fisher & Norris (see below) would have been their major U.S. competitor.

English produced anvils can frequently be identified by the stone weight system used on them at the waist, usually on the side with the horn to the right, such as 1  0  14.  The first number represents multiples of 112 (1/20th long ton), the middle one multiples of 28 and their last remaining pounds.  In this case the anvil originally weighed 126 pounds (112 plus 0 plus 14).  The marked weight is usually off from scale weight a couple of pounds.  Mouse Hole Forge was known for putting punch marks between the numbers and sometimes only they remain of the logo stampings.

In the late 1800s (to about 1955) composite bodied anvils began to be manufactured in the U.S.  A forged top was often forge welded onto a cast base and then a top plate of tool steel forge welded on.  Local production allowed underselling British exporters and American-made anvils then dominated the U.S. market.  Examples of these brands were Trenton, Arm & Hammer and Hay-Budden.  Trenton and Hay-Budden produced a large number of anvils stamped with their client's logo.  Almost regardless of the brand name on an anvil, if there are numbers of three or more digits on the front foot is was produced by one of these three manufacturers.  All are considered to be high-quality.

Trenton, Arm & Hammer and Hay-Budden put a serial number on the front foot.  It can be roughly cross-referened to year of manufacturer.

(Note:  Both Arm & Hammer and Vulcan (see below) used a raised arm holding a hammer in their logo and sometimes Vulcans are referred to as A&Hs.  However, the comparison between the two brands is about like a Cadillac vs a Chevy.)

Production of one-piece steel anvils was pretty well limited to imports from Sweden, with Kolhswa, SISCO and Soderfors (Paragon) being the leading brands.  One American manufacturer was Columbian (indented triangle with a C logo).

Likely the majority of the anvils manufactured in the U.S. were constructed of a cast iron body and steel plate.  These were sometimes called 'dead' or 'city' anvils as they did not have the distinctive 'ring' of a composite bodied anvil.  Fisher & Norris and Vulcan pretty well dominated this market.  Fisher & Norris anvils were targeted to the blacksmithing market and they may have produced more anvils than U.S. composite-bodied anvils combined.  They were the first and last major U.S. anvil manufacturer being in business from about 1854 to 1970.  Vulcan anvils were often carried as the low-end anvil in national mail order catalogs and were predominately intended for places such as schools, garages and farms.  While Fisher & Norris (only FISHER is on the anvil, usually on the front foot) were of the London-pattern, Vulcans tended to be blocky.  Fisher & Norris' logo was an eagle holding an anchor while Vulcan's was a circle or oval with an arm holding a hammer).

Cast iron bodied, steel plate top anvils are popular for use in residential neighborhoods due to their lack of a ring.  (And a propane forge and non-ringing anvil will go a long way towards being a good neighbor.)

By and large old English, Swedish and U.S. anvils which can be identified to a manufacturer were of original high quality.

In the mid- to late-1800s apparently a number of foundries tried to make either one-piece semi-steel or chilled cast iron anvils.  In semi-steel basically a quantity of molten steel was added to molten cast iron.  In chilled, cast iron was poured into a mold designed so one portion of it cools that area, such as the top, quickly.  Both processes were intended to harden the cast iron, but they often turned out to be bittle.  Most of these anvils were not identified to a manufacturer and were scrapped when too badly damaged as they could not be economically repaired.

Anvil manufacturing in the U.S. today is pretty well limited to specialty cast steel anvils, mostly for the farrier trade.  One cast iron anvil with USA cast into it is manufactured in Alabama primarily for the flea market trade.

Some European-style doubled-horned anvils are being imported from Eastern Europe and at least two brands are currently manufactured in the U.S.  These are mostly oriented towards professional blacksmithing or ornamental ironworking shops.

Today the dominant anvil importer to the U.S. is Harbor Freight for sale through their retail outlets in many mid- to large cities.  These anvils are cast in Russia and apparently of a metal intended as a low-cost compromise between cast iron and cast steel (see semi-steel or chilled cast iron above).  These are predominately of 110 pounds (50 kilos) and are short and squat with a 1 1/8" hardy hole diamond to the horn.  They may or may not have a pritchel hole and, when they do, it is often too small in diameter to be of practical use.  The horn is referred to as duck-billed as it is flatish on top with a rounding under it.  The change in the orientation of the hardy hole to diamond to the horn significantly weakened the anvil body at that point and is almost a broken off heel waiting to happen.  (And it wasn't to make it easier to use hardy tools, but rather to made it easier to cast.)  While claims are sometimes made as to their being hardened and tempered (heat treated), the top plate is still considered to be soft and subject to damage from missed hammer blows.  I have steel ball tested (see below) several of these and have not recorded a bounce over 40%.  At Harbor Freight retail outlets they currently sell for about $90 ($.83 pound).  (Now at $.83 pound, vs about $3-4 pound for a modern high-quality cast steel anvil, just how high in quality would you expect them to be?)  These anvils are apparently being purchased and resold on on-line Internet auctions, but don't expect what you pull out of the box to look like the polished one in their listing.

Cast iron anvils are being imported from China and possibly other Asian countries.  They would serve well as buoy anchors or gluing weights.

In the blacksmithing profession these Russian/Asian manufactured anvils are referred to as ASOs - Anvil Shaped Objects.  If you buy one on-line it is recommended you not leave feedback until you have used it for a couple of weeks.  Fast shipping doesn't overcome a low-quality product.

A limited number of anvils are also being imported from Mexico.  They are said to be cast from scrap steel exported from the U.S. and, I suspect, are of a composite roughly similar to concrete reinforcement bars (rebar).  From the photographs I have seen of them I would say they are clearly superior to the Harbor Freight imports (even if of the same material) as they more closely resemble the standard London-pattern design of long, tall and narrow.  I have not been able to go 'hands-on' with one of these anvils and thus withhold further judgement.

I put anvils in the light, medium and heavy-duty usage categories.  If you will only be doing light-work with say a 2-pound hammer, one in the 80-140 pound range may be suitable.  If you are going to do typical blacksmithing work using no more than a 2 1/2-pound hammer, one in the 150-190 pound range may be suitable.  If you intend to do heavy work, such as using a 3-pound or larger hammer, working with a striker and/or working with steel stock larger then about 1", one in the 200-pound plus range may be better suited.  It is not unusual for a professional blacksmith shop to have several sizes of anvils available for use as needed.

My personal anvil is a 160-pound Fisher and I consider it to be an almost ideal size for general purpose, non-professional blacksmithing.

To be usable an anvil should have a fairly flat top and good edges.  Chips off of the edges indicate past and future problems.  A lot of work can still be done on badly damaged anvils by working around the damage.  Anvil repair or rebuilding should be left up to someone who knows what they are doing.

More on anvil defects:

- Swayed (saddled) top:  Indicates a soft bodied anvil with a steel plate.  Unless the sway is deep, this isn't usually much of a problem in that the sway is normally front to back while most work is done from the side.  If repaired they should always be built back up level rather than being milled down.

- Broken edges:  Normally indicates an anvil on which the top plate (or top if solid cast) was made too hard, and is thus brittle.  Depending on extent and location these breaks can sometimes be worked around or rounded off.

- Broken off horn or heel:  A lot of work can still be done on one of these and they do tend to sell cheaply.  A cone mandrel in the hardy hole can do much of the work of a horn.  Hardy tools held in a vise can do much of the function of a hardy hole.  Likely the leading cause of heels breaking off at the hardy hole was someone using a tapered metal forming stake shaft in it.  Either an horn or heel may have also broken off if someone hit the anvil hard while it was VERY cold, such as sitting in a shop at sub-zero temperature for some time.

- Pitted, damaged or a top with missing top plate pieces:  Minor pitting may not be a significant problem and some is normal wear and tear.  Bad dings and dents usually indicate a soft anvil top (say if the anvil wasn't property tempered, made of a soft material to begin with or had been in a fire) and thus indicates one to be avoided.  Missing plate sections likely resulted from an incomplete forge welding of the top plate to the body and can greatly decrease the utility of an anvil.

Testing an anvil top for hardness - two popular methods:

- Drop a 1" steel ball from 10" and record rebound on several areas of the top.  A very knowledge friend provided the below criteria.  (I know of someone who did this with an imported cast iron anvil.  The concrete floor had a greater rebound than the anvil.)

   -- Measured from the bottom of the ball to the bottom of the ball at the peak of the first bounce at center of anvil over waist:

      --- Anything below 40% is generally junk and some ASO's test as low as 10%
      --- 50%  (5")  is OK but a relatively soft anvil
      --- 70%  (7")  is an average good anvil
      --- 80%  (8")  and up are top quality anvils. 

- Hit the top plate moderately hard with the ball end of a heavy ballpeen hammer.  Dimpling indicates a top too soft to stand up to significant usage.

If you cannot preform such tests yourself ask the seller to do at least the ballpeen hammer one and then to give you a money back guarantee for both the cost and return shipping if you do not get the same results.  (This also holds true for the ball bearing bounce test.)  If the seller declines to do so, then buyer beware.

Also of consideration should be the hardy hole size.  The majority of used hardy tools in the U.S. will have 1" shafts.  Small size hardy shafts can be adapted by using shims.  Larger shaft sizes would need to be held in a vise.

As a potential buyer don't be afraid to ask a seller for documentation on their claims.  For example if they say it is tempered/hardened, has a certain Rockwell hardness to the top or has a certain percentage steel ball rebound ask for documentation to that effect.  If the seller declines to offer it, then buyer beware.

Beware of 'painted ladies' - anvils which have been painted.  May have been done to pretty them up or to hide defects or past repairs, particularly if the top has been painted.  You are going to have to remove the paint from the anvil top anyway, so make the seller do it before bidding.

Unless you do a local pick up the cost of shipping should be a major anvil purchase consideration.  Never, repeat, never purchase an anvil without knowing what the total cost will be sitting in your shop.  If the seller says shipping cost will be determined after the auction ends they are likely going to stick it to you.  Even if the seller ships at their actual shipping cost (and some build an extra profit into them) they can be more than the price of the anvil itself.  Both UPS, DHL and FedEx Ground will take up to 150 pounds (see below).  Over that has to be sent as freight, which tends to be expensive.  (See below.)  However, this can be an advantage on locally available anvils in that those over 150 pounds tend to be less expensive, on a per pound basis, as many potential buyers will be scared off by the freight cost.

My personal bidding technique is to determine what is the absolute most I'm willing to pay for the item delivered.  I then subtract out S&H and that is my maximum (initial) bid amount.  If I'm outbid it is fine with me and I could care less about sniping.

On bidding/pricing it is recommended you do a completed item search on anvil (by highest price first) and look at what they have sold for recently for the same type, weight and manufacture technique.  However, an anvil within a reasonable pick up distance may be worth more to you then to someone who also has to pay shipping and handling costs on it.

On anvil shipping.  Package weights up to 150 can be sent by most common ground delivery companies, such as UPS, FedEx or DHL.  Over that weight it becomes a freight shipment.  The seller of an anvil 150 pounds or below may not be aware, at least in the case of UPS, the anvil does not need to be crated or boxed.  A label can be glue to the top and covered with clear tape.  There is a $6.00 handling surcharge for this service though.  On freight it is to the buyer's advantage to find a local company willing to accept a freight shipment on their behalf.

It is not unusual for someone doing blacksmithing to own several anvils over the years, starting with something they can afford at the time and then periodically upgrading as the opportunity presents itself.

If you keep monitoring eBay you are likely to eventually find a decent anvil within a reasonable pick up distance.  In the meantime one of the Harbor Freight imports can be used as a starter anvil while you continue your search.  Just don't expect it to have any resale value.

The definitive references on anvils are Anvils in America and Mouse Hole Forge, both by Richard Postman, Postma Press, 320 Fisher Court, Berrien Springs, MI 49103.  Both are periodically listed on eBay.

I am, in no way, an authority on anvils.  However, I have likely seen up to perhaps 1,000 of them in the last 25 or so years.  If you see one on eBay you are interested in you can contact me for my opinion of it.  Just open any of my listings and do an Ask the Seller a Question query.

Ken Scharabok, Poor Boy Blacksmith Tools (an eBay store)


Guide ID: 10000000001445709Guide created: 07/28/06 (updated 07/02/08)

 
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Related tags: anvil | hardy | blacksmith | clamp | 110 | tongs | vise | pritchel | vice | blacksmithing

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