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Continued from part 12
Christopher of Reston VA (01/23/07)
I brought my 2006 Prius in for O-Toy to diagnose and repair a problem that could produce extremely dangerous performance. When my car is on any kind of slick surface that causes one of the front wheels to slip, ALL power to the drive system is stopped.
I first experienced this on a sloped gravel driveway in July but discounted it as a temporary thing. This past weekend, I was on a snow covered road with about an 8-10 degree grade. Driving at 20mph, one tire began to slip on the snow and the car came to a stop.
The wheels then refused to engage (because one would slip a little) regardless of throttle position. I had cable style tire chains with me and installed them properly on the front wheels and tried again. Still, a tire would slip on the 4 or 5 inches between the cables and the car would refuse to move.
Ultimately, the only way to get the car up the remainder of the hill was for me to get out and push while my son put his foot gently on the throttle. I could describe any number of scenarios where this kind of performance could cause a rear ended accident, since when the wheels slip and the power is removed, no brake lights come on.
On my service ticket, it mentions that the O-Toy service manager was able to duplicate the symptoms on a level snow covered surface and also got the same results with two other Prius cars that are in their fleet.
O-Toy reported the problem as case #TA070230006 to Toyota US and was told that VSC system (is) operating as designed. Bottom line- either Toyota has engineered the system improperly for ALL of these vehicles or O-Toy just wasted my time and some other facility will be able to find that although there is a designed reduction in power to keep wheels from spinning the system should not be totally eliminating all power to the wheels.
Lost time. Frustration of being stuck on a remote snowy road being unable to go forward. Discomfort at having to listen to someone tell me that a problem this serious is a feature of the product instead of a bug.
Ultimately, I will consider this vehicle unsafe for road use under any snow or ice conditions and frankly feel that if all Pruis vehicles are designed to do this that the Virginia DOT should be notified to look into the situation to try to force Toyota to modify the design. I actually think that it is a software error, since the power distribution and control decisions are primarily computer controlled on this vehicle.
Question to contemplate: If I were rear ended on an icy hill because of this flaw, would Toyota be responsible for their failure to address the problem, or would I be responsible since I have been exposed to the problem previously?
Tom of Atlanta GA (01/20/07)
I now have about 78,000 miles on my 2002 Prius and have had to replace all four tires twice because of structural failure of the tires. At 22,900 miles, two of the tires were replace because of structural failure. At 32,600 miles the other two tires were replaced because of structural failure. MY dealer first tried to convenience me that it was a tire pressure issue. I monitor tire pressure almost weekly and that is surely not the case.
In all cases the ride became bumpy as if one of the tires was out of round. At 70,700 miles two more tires failed; At 78,000 miles the other two tires failed. In all cases, the tires failed in a manner that metal cord was visible on the side wall. Fortunately, in all cases but one, these failures were identified and dealt with before the tire failed catastrophically.
The most recent failure did occur at interstate hightway speeds, resulting in major damage to the tire. In summary 75 percent of the tires that have been placed on my 2002 Prius have failed structurally well before the tread life has been expended.
These failures are serious enough to cause injury or death. The only authorized tire for the Prius is a very expensive Bridgestone 175/65/14. A mounted set of four of these tires cost $383.00. One can get a good set of traditional 80,000 mile tires for less; and they don't fail.
To date consequences have been economic. I am paying $383.00 for a set of four tires and they only last from 25,000 to 32,000 miles. You can get a traditioal 80,000 tire for less than that. The other concern is safety. The failure mode of the tire can result in a true blowout and subsequent loss of control of the car.
Deb of Petaluma CA (01/18/07)
I've had 6 dead batteries with my 2002 Prius, 4 while still under warranty. It was checked twice for parasitic drains but none was ever found. Only the small auxillary battery was involved. I love the car and have no other complaints about it, but like other's who've spoken up, Toyota refused to replace the car as they should. I'm off now to buy a new small battery. The current one hasn't been able to withstand the 20 degree temps at night.
I do have a concern that this may impact the large main battery that I understand is extremely expensive to replace.
Michele of Jamaica Plain MA (01/16/07)
I purchased a brand new 2003 Toyota Tacoma in 2003 and it has just over 27,000 miles. My warranty just expired. My mechanic looked at the brake pads and told me that the rotors need to be replaced. According to my mechanic, car manufacturers use much thinner rotors than they used in the past. That means the rotors must be replaced more often. At 27,000 I should barely need to replace the brake pads much less the rotors.
Richard of Little Mountain SC (01/12/07)
We purchased a 2004 Prius in 2004, and the tires that came on the car new, were Goodyear tires. After only 24,000 miles (Nov., 2005)I was told we needed to buy a new set of tires. I didn't understand why these tires would be worn out so soon. The service manager told us that those were just cheap tires that Toyota put on the car. We purchased the second set of tires, brand name Toyo which were rated for 60,000 miles. The service manager told us that these tires would be good. We have had them rotated every 5,000 miles. Just this past week (Jan. 5, 2007) and not quite 24,000 miles, again, we have been told that we need a new set of tires. Now this will be the 3rd set of tires in 3 years. Having to buy new tires every year, takes away from the benefits of gas mileage. What gives? We are not sure as to what brand of tire we will purchase this time, or if we will keep the Prius.
Ellen of Newcomb NY (01/11/07)
My 2001 Toyota Prius also goes thru tires like water! I've been told that that is because the Prius needs high performance tires, which are soft and wear faster, and it needs these tires to provide the energy generation for the electric motor. A different tire would not apparently work as well. I go thru about two sets of tires a year (at about $100/tire), and I'm not doing any extravagant driving! I put on maybe 200 miles a week, give or take. This sort of negates the savings at the gas pump, and let's face it - all this rubber that is being worn off must be going into the environment. I'm not pleased with this aspect of the Prius. I hope Toyota has improved it for later models!
Jennifer of Carlsbad CA (01/01/07)
I am a Prius owner and have had verry concerning problems with the battery holding it's charge. The car will lose its' charge if left parked more than 72 hours and recently 24 hours. I was told this was normal and I just need to jump start the car. Unfortunatley that is not always convenient (after coming home from the airport). I was told at the dealer, a number of them, that I just need to purchase a battery pack so I can self start the car. The chargers are not the easiest to attach as the Prius battery is so small. I am beginning to feel concerned that Toyota has not thought through issues such as these and does not have staff trained at dealerships to address these issues either.
Maia of San Francisco CA (12/30/06)
I live in San Francisco, CA. I recently (9.5.2006) bought a Toyota Prius and I am extremely disappointed in the gas mileage. Following the best advice the manufacturer has to offer on maximizing mileage on my car (eg., keeping tires inflated, avoiding rapid starts, maintaining constant speed on hwy, etc.) my mileage is UNACCEPTABLY low. (Tops: 35mpg in the city; 48mpg on the hwy.)
This is obviously the inverse of Toyota/EPA claims for the Prius; city driving should yield better mileage than hwy driving, and BOTH should be significantly better than they are. I just read on your site that EPA has recalculated the government-endorsed (if you will) mileage claim for the Prius. That's just fine -- for the people who have NOT yet bought their cars, but are comparing Prius claims to claims of other manufacturers. That, however, does NOT help me. Just to test out the impact of hill driving on my mileage, I have mapped out 2 routes that take me to my daily destinations -- one hilly, and one relatively flat. There is a SMALL difference in the mpg I record. That is to say, if you want to blame my mpg results on San Francisco's hilly topography, you can use the excuse, but FACTUALLY speaking, the terrain does NOT excuse the Prius performance.
This is my question: is there a class action lawsuit now being considered/planned against Toyota??? If there is, I WANT TO JOIN. If not, I will sell the Prius and buy something from a manufacturer that is more honest -- if such a car maker exists. Suggestions and inquries welcome. Thanks, Maia Krache
Obvious: I have spent money on a car -- a significant sum, to my way of thinking -- based on false mpg assumptions promulgated by Toyota Motor Corp and the EPA. I'm not a lawyer, but if the Prius mpg representations are not FRAUD, what is?
Christopher of Reston VA (01/23/07)
I brought my 2006 Prius in for O-Toy to diagnose and repair a problem that could produce extremely dangerous performance. When my car is on any kind of slick surface that causes one of the front wheels to slip, ALL power to the drive system is stopped.
I first experienced this on a sloped gravel driveway in July but discounted it as a temporary thing. This past weekend, I was on a snow covered road with about an 8-10 degree grade. Driving at 20mph, one tire began to slip on the snow and the car came to a stop.
The wheels then refused to engage (because one would slip a little) regardless of throttle position. I had cable style tire chains with me and installed them properly on the front wheels and tried again. Still, a tire would slip on the 4 or 5 inches between the cables and the car would refuse to move.
Ultimately, the only way to get the car up the remainder of the hill was for me to get out and push while my son put his foot gently on the throttle. I could describe any number of scenarios where this kind of performance could cause a rear ended accident, since when the wheels slip and the power is removed, no brake lights come on.
On my service ticket, it mentions that the O-Toy service manager was able to duplicate the symptoms on a level snow covered surface and also got the same results with two other Prius cars that are in their fleet.
O-Toy reported the problem as case #TA070230006 to Toyota US and was told that VSC system (is) operating as designed. Bottom line- either Toyota has engineered the system improperly for ALL of these vehicles or O-Toy just wasted my time and some other facility will be able to find that although there is a designed reduction in power to keep wheels from spinning the system should not be totally eliminating all power to the wheels.
Lost time. Frustration of being stuck on a remote snowy road being unable to go forward. Discomfort at having to listen to someone tell me that a problem this serious is a feature of the product instead of a bug.
Ultimately, I will consider this vehicle unsafe for road use under any snow or ice conditions and frankly feel that if all Pruis vehicles are designed to do this that the Virginia DOT should be notified to look into the situation to try to force Toyota to modify the design. I actually think that it is a software error, since the power distribution and control decisions are primarily computer controlled on this vehicle.
Question to contemplate: If I were rear ended on an icy hill because of this flaw, would Toyota be responsible for their failure to address the problem, or would I be responsible since I have been exposed to the problem previously?
Tom of Atlanta GA (01/20/07)
I now have about 78,000 miles on my 2002 Prius and have had to replace all four tires twice because of structural failure of the tires. At 22,900 miles, two of the tires were replace because of structural failure. At 32,600 miles the other two tires were replaced because of structural failure. MY dealer first tried to convenience me that it was a tire pressure issue. I monitor tire pressure almost weekly and that is surely not the case.
In all cases the ride became bumpy as if one of the tires was out of round. At 70,700 miles two more tires failed; At 78,000 miles the other two tires failed. In all cases, the tires failed in a manner that metal cord was visible on the side wall. Fortunately, in all cases but one, these failures were identified and dealt with before the tire failed catastrophically.
The most recent failure did occur at interstate hightway speeds, resulting in major damage to the tire. In summary 75 percent of the tires that have been placed on my 2002 Prius have failed structurally well before the tread life has been expended.
These failures are serious enough to cause injury or death. The only authorized tire for the Prius is a very expensive Bridgestone 175/65/14. A mounted set of four of these tires cost $383.00. One can get a good set of traditional 80,000 mile tires for less; and they don't fail.
To date consequences have been economic. I am paying $383.00 for a set of four tires and they only last from 25,000 to 32,000 miles. You can get a traditioal 80,000 tire for less than that. The other concern is safety. The failure mode of the tire can result in a true blowout and subsequent loss of control of the car.
Deb of Petaluma CA (01/18/07)
I've had 6 dead batteries with my 2002 Prius, 4 while still under warranty. It was checked twice for parasitic drains but none was ever found. Only the small auxillary battery was involved. I love the car and have no other complaints about it, but like other's who've spoken up, Toyota refused to replace the car as they should. I'm off now to buy a new small battery. The current one hasn't been able to withstand the 20 degree temps at night.
I do have a concern that this may impact the large main battery that I understand is extremely expensive to replace.
Michele of Jamaica Plain MA (01/16/07)
I purchased a brand new 2003 Toyota Tacoma in 2003 and it has just over 27,000 miles. My warranty just expired. My mechanic looked at the brake pads and told me that the rotors need to be replaced. According to my mechanic, car manufacturers use much thinner rotors than they used in the past. That means the rotors must be replaced more often. At 27,000 I should barely need to replace the brake pads much less the rotors.
Richard of Little Mountain SC (01/12/07)
We purchased a 2004 Prius in 2004, and the tires that came on the car new, were Goodyear tires. After only 24,000 miles (Nov., 2005)I was told we needed to buy a new set of tires. I didn't understand why these tires would be worn out so soon. The service manager told us that those were just cheap tires that Toyota put on the car. We purchased the second set of tires, brand name Toyo which were rated for 60,000 miles. The service manager told us that these tires would be good. We have had them rotated every 5,000 miles. Just this past week (Jan. 5, 2007) and not quite 24,000 miles, again, we have been told that we need a new set of tires. Now this will be the 3rd set of tires in 3 years. Having to buy new tires every year, takes away from the benefits of gas mileage. What gives? We are not sure as to what brand of tire we will purchase this time, or if we will keep the Prius.
Ellen of Newcomb NY (01/11/07)
My 2001 Toyota Prius also goes thru tires like water! I've been told that that is because the Prius needs high performance tires, which are soft and wear faster, and it needs these tires to provide the energy generation for the electric motor. A different tire would not apparently work as well. I go thru about two sets of tires a year (at about $100/tire), and I'm not doing any extravagant driving! I put on maybe 200 miles a week, give or take. This sort of negates the savings at the gas pump, and let's face it - all this rubber that is being worn off must be going into the environment. I'm not pleased with this aspect of the Prius. I hope Toyota has improved it for later models!
Jennifer of Carlsbad CA (01/01/07)
I am a Prius owner and have had verry concerning problems with the battery holding it's charge. The car will lose its' charge if left parked more than 72 hours and recently 24 hours. I was told this was normal and I just need to jump start the car. Unfortunatley that is not always convenient (after coming home from the airport). I was told at the dealer, a number of them, that I just need to purchase a battery pack so I can self start the car. The chargers are not the easiest to attach as the Prius battery is so small. I am beginning to feel concerned that Toyota has not thought through issues such as these and does not have staff trained at dealerships to address these issues either.
Maia of San Francisco CA (12/30/06)
I live in San Francisco, CA. I recently (9.5.2006) bought a Toyota Prius and I am extremely disappointed in the gas mileage. Following the best advice the manufacturer has to offer on maximizing mileage on my car (eg., keeping tires inflated, avoiding rapid starts, maintaining constant speed on hwy, etc.) my mileage is UNACCEPTABLY low. (Tops: 35mpg in the city; 48mpg on the hwy.)
This is obviously the inverse of Toyota/EPA claims for the Prius; city driving should yield better mileage than hwy driving, and BOTH should be significantly better than they are. I just read on your site that EPA has recalculated the government-endorsed (if you will) mileage claim for the Prius. That's just fine -- for the people who have NOT yet bought their cars, but are comparing Prius claims to claims of other manufacturers. That, however, does NOT help me. Just to test out the impact of hill driving on my mileage, I have mapped out 2 routes that take me to my daily destinations -- one hilly, and one relatively flat. There is a SMALL difference in the mpg I record. That is to say, if you want to blame my mpg results on San Francisco's hilly topography, you can use the excuse, but FACTUALLY speaking, the terrain does NOT excuse the Prius performance.
This is my question: is there a class action lawsuit now being considered/planned against Toyota??? If there is, I WANT TO JOIN. If not, I will sell the Prius and buy something from a manufacturer that is more honest -- if such a car maker exists. Suggestions and inquries welcome. Thanks, Maia Krache
Obvious: I have spent money on a car -- a significant sum, to my way of thinking -- based on false mpg assumptions promulgated by Toyota Motor Corp and the EPA. I'm not a lawyer, but if the Prius mpg representations are not FRAUD, what is?
Guide created: 04/05/08
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