This is the third and final part of the original Ebay Guide “Fake Clock Dials:  Red Flag Signals in Descriptions”  This guide revolves around the offensive exploitation of Black Americana being faked on vintage and antique clock dials.  If you are new to this guide, I would suggest going back to the original article to understand all the details of these forgeries coming out of the Central Pennsylvania Area.  Afterwards, you want to join us on Part 2 of Fake Clock Dials on Ebay.  This section shows the reactions of various sellers once they are informed their clock is fake.  Some honorable sellers take action.  Others did nothing, content with deceiving members such as yourself.

This article will start off with a few more known fakes that were offered on Ebay, and the actions taken by the sellers once informed.  Afterwards, read the conclusion that will show you some red flags if you have one of these in your possession and tips to avoid getting screwed if you find one on Ebay.

Please note!  The object of this project is not meant to chastise good, honest sellers who themselves have unknowingly fallen victim to these forgeries.  The idea here is to contact the seller with some basic questions.  Our questions are based on knowledge of these clocks, an attribute that many buyers may not possess.  Fore example- A vintage Coca Cola collector seeing a Coke clock may think it’s authentic based on the seller’s description.  In truth, this particular collector may not even own an old clock, and not know the first thing about them.  Since there is no getting around our questions, we wanted to see what kind of direction sellers would take to keep you, the buyer, properly informed.  Some sellers were very disappointed to find out they were scammed, and took action to make changes.  Just because their clock appears on this article does not mean they are bad sellers.  The clock appears here to help you better identify the fakes.  We applaud those who have the decency to keep Ebay an honest shopping place.  Unfortunately, you are out-numbered.

Silverdollar Productions is committed to bringing you professionally serviced and reconditioned clocks.  Our signature goes on every clock we sell or restore.  This is our guarantee that the clock you receive has been researched, and 100% authentic.  Again, the best advice we can give when shopping for an antique clock is to stick with sellers who specialize in them.  There are several sellers on Ebay who take the time to research, service, and offer a high-quality product.  You may pay a little bit more, but that little extra is certainly worth the piece of mind over getting totally ripped off.

This particular 1936 to 1949 Westclox Big Ben showed up on Ebay Oct. 22, 2006.  Another darn Topsy Dial!  The seller’s description stated “Purchased locally at a well established Boca Raton auction house last week. This is the first item of this kind that I have seen or purchased. It is a vintage item but I cannot track year of production. .Auctioneer had an estimated value of 400.00 to 500.00 dollars on it”.  We contacted the seller and informed him that the clock had a fake dial.  After already receiving bids, the seller cancelled the bids, and stopped the auction.  So the question was, how did this clock end up way down in Florida?  The seller, David, emailed and said that the Boca Raton Auctioneer “…..Was fresh back from Treasure Hunting in Pennsylvania. That explains that!”  David was duped out of $180 at the Boca Raton Auction House.  Based on the information from our guides, David complained, and the auctioneer agreed to take back the clock and refund him his money.   “We are lucky to have people like you out there. Thanks so much…David”  Hey David….good to see there are some honest people like you still out there!

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Another Westclox Big Ben destroyed by our scammer out in Pennsylvania.  The seller here is actually from New Hampshire. This is the fourth time we have seen this exact dial in the past 3-months. The seller states in the description “The face depicts Little Black Sambo with Umbrella and Tiger and is marked with " Little Black Sambo " and" Copyright 1946 " on the face.”  Hmmmm, looks like a 7th Generation Big Ben to me.  That particular Big Ben wasn’t even introduced until 1956!  The picture on the right shows what it should look like.  (That clock on the right sold on Ebay for $3.37 and was in good, working order!)  The seller took action.  Response was “We acquired the clock sometime around 1990 through a walk in customer. The copyright date is printed on the paper faceplate as shown in the picture provided. After your message we removed the faceplate and found that the Little Black Sambo plate was mounted to the original. Thanks for your tip on this item. We will modify our listing accordingly.”

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“GOLD DUST TWINS CLOCK C 1940 BLACK AMER ADVERTISING”

This clock appeared on Ebay Oct. 24, 2006 and was described as “A RARE GOLD DUST TWINS ADVERTISING CLOCK”.  Yup!  The seller was out of Philadelphia and boasted a 99.7% feedback rating.  I was unable to identify the clock as the seller ignored the email I sent.  One thing I was certain of is that it certainly isn’t rare.  I never heard back, and no changes to the description were made.  Very deceitful.    This auction ended on Nov. 3, 2006 and closed for $82.  For whatever reason, the winner did not pay.  (Perhaps the winner found out they were getting screwed?).  The clock was relisted Nov. 9th.  Using the exact same, deceitful description as before.  After finding out the clock was relisted, I contacted the high-bidder to find out why the transaction was not completed. Unfortunately, I never received a reply.   This auction closed Nov. 19th and the seller cheated some unlucky winner out of $104.

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“BLACK YOUNG GIRL & BOY CLOCK, WESTCOX, ALARM, WORKS, NICE”

Just when I start thinking I can sit and relax, up pops another Westclox from a Pennsylvania seller!  This one appeared on Ebay Oct. 25, 2006.  Another 1964 to 1981 8th Series Big Ben, again, with the darn base on backwards!  The seller’s description read “A REAL NICE COLLECTABLE, HARD TO OBTAIN OLDER CLOCK.”  None of that is true.  Despite the fact the seller has a 99.9% feedback rating, my emails went ignored.  Absolutely no response was made to our inquiries.  There were no changes made to the description.  Fortunately, the clock did not receive a bid at the $25 opening price. 

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One Seller…..14 Fakes!

This particular lot of clocks somehow escaped our early searches and was already 2 days into the auctions before we were able to contact this Philadelphia area seller.  2-days in, and already $600 worth of bids had been made, not including the 20% buyers premium..  These were discovered on Ebay Live Auctions, being sold by what appears to be a reputable auction firm.  Because of Ebay limitations on these guides, I am unable to show all 15 of the clocks.  Instead, I left out pictures of dials we already shown you in our articles.  There were a lot of repeats.  So the dials shown below are some that haven’t been shown yet.  All are guaranteed fake.

 Now check this out!  A fake pocket watch with the same dial on a plastic Big Ben!  The seller described the pocket watch as 1950’s.  Because the dials were the same, the seller also assumed the clock was 1950’s.  Wrong!  Now, take a careful look at the 4 clocks above.  Notice anything unusual?  You have different manufactures.  You have different years.  You have different pictures on the dials.  Yet, the time track (numbers) are all identical.

I can’t tell you for certain what the disposition of the above clocks and watches were.  We did contact the seller, but never heard back.  I would have really liked to have received some feedback on these.   On the morning of Nov. 13th, all of the ads were gone out of the Ebay database.  Not ended, but actually cancelled as if they were never listed.  Only Ebay has the power to stop an auction and remove it totally from the database.  This usually happens when a viewer reports it for one reason or another.  Although, I’m guessing as a reputable auctioneer, the seller took some sort of action to end these auctions. 

Know what to look for, protect yourself against fakes

Westclox or clocks advertised as Western Clock Company seem to be the favorite of this particular scam.  Why?  Because they are cheap and abundant.  You can actually go onto to Ebay and buy lot-boxes of these clocks (working and non-working) for a song.  The problem with seeing the Westclox Big Ben on Ebay is that with the fake dial on, they are harder to identify.  Although, the bases and bezels on these clocks are still a sure-fired way to easily spot them.  Shown below are the most common types of Big Bens used in this scam.  Pay particular attention to the differences in the bases and bezels.

Some of the common mistakes we’ve found on these Westclox include “Lux” on the front dial. (See below)  Lux was its own clock manufacturer, and had nothing to do with Westclox.  In addition, watch for copyright dates on the front dial.  Many of the copyrights on the forgeries don’t match up with the year the clock was made.  Lastly, keep in mind that if you identify a Black Americana dial as a Westclox, it’s truly a fake.  Westclox never made such dials.

This atrocity ended on eBay Sept. 29th and sold for $51. The dial on this clock states The Lux Clock Mfg. Co. , Lebanon, Tenn USA. As you can see, it's a '49 to '56 Big Ben as shown above. The best part was in the description. The seller stated " I saw this clock at an aution in Pennsylvania and spoke to a dealer there who said he had one as a kid in 1932. Evidently they were popular in the Depression Era."

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If the seller is from the Harrisburg, Scranton, Philadelphia area, that’s a red flag with a big whistle.  Since this is ground zero for these fakes, they are going to be more abundant here.  A single Ebay seller can gather up a bag-full in a short period of time.  Although as you can see, they have migrated to other parts of the country.  If you are considering a clock from Oregon that has a dial like any of the clocks in our guides, automatically assume it’s fake.

Don’t use feedback as a gauge of authenticity.  All of the sellers in our articles have had excellent feedback.  Instead, take a look at the list of current or closed items from the seller.  If the seller has a consistent and knowledgeable history of listing clocks, that should help build credibility.  If the seller has listings for Brady Bunch VHS tapes, used toothbrushes, and bulk lots of colorful shoelaces, that should give you a pretty good indication of their clock expertise.

Take any description you read with a grain of salt.  Regardless of how rare the clock is described, keep in mind the seller is no expert.  Also watch for any signs of doubt as to authenticity in a description.  This is usually a pretty good sign the seller has a feeling the clock is fake.  You can always email the seller and point them in the direction of our Guides concerning the fake dials.  See what their reaction is. If the seller is using such words as “Rare”, “Hard-to-Find”, “Valuable” etc in their descriptions, email them as to their conclusions.  An honest, knowledgeable clock person can substantiate their claims with some hard facts.  Others beat around the bush with sugar coated B.S. or offer nothing at all.  No response to your questions (like we seemed to get) is a good sign the seller is hiding something.

Don’t be fooled into thinking higher starting prices stands for more authentic.  This is usually the case when the seller over-paid for the clock and is trying to recoup their money.  A perfect example of this is Mr. Toilet-Mouth from Part 2.  All the fakes he has for sale are priced $50 to $100, and all are worth a tiny fraction of those amounts if they work.  Unless you know how to fix them, non-working clocks are pretty much worthless.

If you find a different make of clock on Ebay with any of the dials you have seen pictured on our articles, odds are it’s fake.  We have seen the same, exact dials on all different clocks from different manufacturers. 

Sellers, if you think you’ve struck gold by finding some of these clocks at a flea-market, think again.  Consider it too good to be true.  Although as you’ve seen in one of our examples above, these do show up at reputable action houses.    Keep in mind that auctioneers are jacks of all trades, and masters of none.  I have seen many, many mistakes made in the representation of items by auctioneers when selling an item.  Their job is to sell the item.  The higher the price they get, the bigger the commission they receive.  If you make a mistake and pay too much, shame on you.  List it on Ebay, but list it truthfully as the fake it is.  Recover what you can, and bow out gracefully.

If you have acquired a clock you think is a fake, identifying it as such is not difficult.  The 1964 to 1981 Westclox Big Ben clocks had metal casings, but the bezels and crystals are plastic.  The use of plastics in these areas should be a tip-off that the clock you have is not old.  Also, the clocks do come apart quite easily, usually with just a few screws on the back.  Without even taking the hands off, you can lift the dial to see what is underneath.  If you see the original dial underneath, you have a fake.

Put this into prospective about advertising clocks.  Harley Davidson, Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Indian Motorcycle, etc will usually be found on larger clocks that could be displayed in retail establishments.  For what possible reason would any of these companies create dials for tiny clocks meant for the bedroom or even the kitchen?  One thing about true advertising clocks is that the advertising is done on original metal dials.  They were meant to replace the original dials, not be placed on top of them. 

What started out in June 2006 as a simple article ended up as a 5-month project!  Our investigation is over, but the fakes will continue.  We hope that enough avid collectors will learn for our guides and continue to police auctions.