A Quick Guide for Buying Vintage Lionel Trains

Before buying a vintage Lionel engine or train car, it is a good idea to get a grip on how much that train has been used and how well it has been cared for. Checking a few key points can  help you bid or negotiate a price more effectively.

After collecting for the past 40 years I have picked up a few tidbits on ways you can tell much about a car or engine at a quick glance.

How Much is it Worth?

The value of your purchase depends on what your intention is. If you are reselling then you want to buy as cheap as possible. If it is an item you've been looking for (for a long time) and it brings back memories, then your budget could suffer from the "Nostalgia Purchase". Price guides typically go out the window and no advice will help. But even then, you should pause for a moment and make a judgement of condition and authenticity.

Buying on line...

You have the obvious problem of not being able to inspect the engine or car using your hands. You are trapped by the description and pictures the seller wants you to see. However, you can get a lot of information if you look at the right stuff and ask the seller a few questions.

 If you are planning a purchase on eBay consider the following:

• Will the seller take the item back and what are the conditions of the return?
• Check the sellers eBay rating.
• Are the photos of  the item clear and from a variety of angles?
• Is the asking price in the range it should be in ?

Other things you can do when dealing with sellers of  vintage trains:

• Contact the seller for better pictures if you need them
• Find out if the engine runs forward and reverse
• Ask about any questionable things that may be in a photograph
• STUDY THE PICTURES WITH CARE
• Download the picture and open it with a viewer that you can "zoom in" with
• Look for some of the items discussed later in this guide
• Check for RUST
• Ask the seller if he or she is the original owner

What to look for...

 Check the "Collector Rollers"...

The Collector Roller "Collector" (Below)

One of the best ways to determine how much and engine has been run is to examine the collector roller and collector assembly. If the engine is fifty years old, obviously used, and the collector is bright and shiny with no marks at all... then assume it has been replaced. This is not a bad thing it just means you will have to look elsewhere for usage marks.

The collector above has been run, but not much. The discoloration in the center shows run time but was probably not the primary engine for this owner.

 This collector has been run a fair amount. There is excessive wear from the third rail as indicated by the indentation in the center of the collector. A fair assumption would be this was more of the work horse of the owners set. This is not a bad thing but you may need motor brushes or may have to rebuild the motor.

If you have the engine or car in hand, push down on the collector and check if the springs are still good. If the collector springs are good they should push the collector back up to its original position. The idea is you want to have a slight pressure against the middle rail and not just gravity letting the roller roll along the track to collect the electricity.

If the collector assembly does not have springs but uses the copper-spring steel type collector assembly look for wear and repairs on the collector arms.

 The above picture shows the collector assembly in good shape. Check the arms for cracks. If they are cracked they can be repaired, but what you are looking for is if they are bent or twisted. This would means they probably would have to be replaced.

The picture above shows a soldered repair of the collector arm. This is a good repair. The arm flexes good and should provide sufficient pressure on the rail to collect the power.

Check the Wheels...

Wear on the wheels is a dead giveaway of usage. Check for dinks in the wheels that may indicate an uneven track or bad track connections. Wheels that have been run a lot will eventually show a "polished" area in the center, as shown in the picture below.

Examine the rim of the wheels for chips,cracks and pitted rust. This can indicate how well cared for the engine was. If there are chips that can possibly indicate the way the engine was handled. Look to see if the rim has become "sharpened" from usage. I have found that metal fatigue shows up here sometimes. If the wheels are chipped, that could indicate the metal has become brittle. This is something to seriously consider before making a purchase.

Check the wiring...

Cracked wire insulation, disconnected wires, sloppy soldering joints are all good indicators of engines that have discarded and not cared for. Look at the headlight socket connection and connections at the collector assembly. Check around the brush motors if they are exposed (also check that the brush motor spring is present).

Check wiring where ever it is exposed for viewing.

Some wire just goes bad with age regardless of how you care for it. It is a matter of checking if the owner has kept up with the repairs.

Dirty?

Not keeping trains clean does not mean lack of care. I am glad some people have not cleaned their trains because they may use cleaners that should not be used. Sometimes it is hard to tell if the item is dirty or if the finish has abrasions. If you can get your hands on it, you can give it the "spit and thumbnail test" but that may bother the seller.

The above picture shows what may look like permanent discoloration, soilage or abrasion of the finish. You can rub your thumb across this (an action like removing adhesive from a price tag) and see if it comes off. It may just be fifty years of grime!

If  you see this in an online photo you should contact the seller and ask point blank what the discoloration is.

If you see rust under the grime, start looking very close at everything else!

What's Working and Not Working?

Most of the people I have dealt with when I have been buying are honest. There is no gain in telling someone something works when it doesn't. Most collectors are "tinkerers" and don't mind buying something if it is broken. However, a lot of times people don't know if something is not working or broken. You don't always get the chance to run the item before purchasing so you have to be aware of parts availability.

There are ways to tell if things are working or not without actually running the car or engine. For example below you can see a smoke tablet jammed into the smoke stack of this engine. Also observe un-burnt tablet residue around the stack. The assumption can be made the smoke unit is malfunctioning.

Look at the coupler knuckles in the pictures. Check if they are are tightly opened or closed. If they appear to be just hanging somewhere between open and closed you could figure the coupler knuckle is not functioning properly.

Look for "burred" screws...

The curse of the "Burred Screws" (Above)

Nothing distracts more from the looks of a train model than burred screws and bolt heads. It can also have the following implications:

1. A nonprofessional repair job or a careless repairman
2. A replaced part - could be good or bad
3. An over-torqued screw - could have stripped threads
4. The wrong size driver was used
5. Tried to remove a screw that was not meant to be removed - amateur repair
6. Wrong screw in the wrong hole

Missing Screws...

Checking for missing screws is a good bet that the item was probably under exploratory surgery by someone who should not have been messing with it!

In General Check for the following:

• Does it say "Lionel" anywhere on it?
• Are there any items missing from the unit (Bells, brake wheels, ladders, safety rails, etc.)
• Is the engine number or car model number clearly visible and intact
• RUST - Stay away from rust, maybe just a "little itty bit" but be careful!
• How scratched-up is it?
• Check for dents
• Bent axles
• Cracks in the plastic
• RE-PAINT - watch out for "restored" paint jobs, if you are collecting then this is a problem piece; if you are running it or don't care then consider the quality of the restoration

"It's in excellent condition!"

Determining Condition

This is the area of  biggest debate. I would like to re-emphasize the value of the purchase is what the purchase means to you.

Depending on what guide you use and who you are buying from, the condition of the train is subjective. You, as the buyer, are determining the condition and value as it pertains to you. You have to decide on the seller's qualifications to determine the condition scale. Then you have to figure out who's scale the seller is using to determine the condition. The seller may be using the condition scale of some local auction house who's primary focus is furniture and artifacts and this grading may mean something completely different in the toy train mainstream. More typically it is the sellers best guess.

If you do not consider yourself an expert then consider the following:

Conditions like "Poor" and "Fair" mean basically the item is well used and probably beat up. You have to determine if it has been abused or mearly used. Check for major cracks, dents bent wheels and especially rust. Sometimes major accessories are missing like little bells, port holes and the like. To me, this value catagory translates to "Parts".

Good to Very Good Condition generally means the item is scratched and there may be a small dent or two. The piece model number is intact and rust would be extremely limited and able to be removed completely. The item may be dirty but able to be cleaned or may already be spotlessly clean.

Excellent condition means just that. "Greenberg's Guide to Lionel Trains" says "Excellent Condition" is "Minute scratches or nicks, no dents or rust, all original and unused". I have seen trains at shows that definitely have been run and are being sold in "Excellent" condition. Granted these trains are in beautiful condition and meet all the criteria but one,  you can see the grading is subjective to seller.

All agree on "Mint" Condition. This means "never been run", includes original box , no finger prints - rust - scratches - dents - no wear what so ever. The item is brand new as if it were on the toy store shelf and the year is 1957. Includes everything that came with the item originally (manuals). The item has all its original parts (no replacement [OEM] parts).  Most mint condition items are hard to find and that is one of the reasons they are so expensive.  

In Conclusion:

I purchase trains that I can run on my set. The value I place on a targeted item, starts with what I see the item going for using price guides, checking eBay auctions, calling a hobby shop or fellow collector. Generally you get a good range of costs. Most say "if it is in -good - condition it probably would sell for ..."

The term "Good" is the key. I like to tinker, and finding parts is a fun challenge. So "Good" to me may be a little less than "Good" to someone else.

The real value is what it is worth to you.